I think most would agree that cante accompaniment requires special skills that many even very good flamenco guitarists may lack. My question is; can a non Spanish speaking person learn to accompany cante at a respectable level, or is that too much of a handicap?
Ed

I can't answer your question, but I would love to try if I knew a local flamenco singer.

-Bob

Hola Ed
I teach how to accompany cante.
Here are some ideas.
Not being Andaluz is never the best condition to start to do anything in flamenco but I encourage my students not to focus on what they are not but to focus on what they can become.
First, to accompany cante you need to know what the chords are, which of course I teach, and then you have to know the options as cantaores/as like to feel free to do different things.
Second, despite what people say I believe it is not a great idea to try to accompany once someone you have never met before, the same is for cante and baile. It is absolutely better to meet a cantaor/a and spend time with him or her all the time and get to know them.
There is no reason whatsoever to know things if you haven’t had the opportunity to work them out.
It would be helpful if at first a cantaor/a sings cuadrado or square. When singing for baile it is usual to sing cuadrado. This means to be very strict with the compás and even to be very clear on the chords progression.
That is the best way to start. Then after and I stress once you know someone you can try to experiment with spontaneous changes.
If cantaores/as want guitarists then they should be helpful the same is true for dancers.
So yes you really can accompany cante without being Andaluz or Spanish.
One thing you can do is to see cante a lot on the internet and play with it yourself.
I do understand what you mean when you say many cante accompaniment requires special skills that many even very good flamenco guitarists may lack but to be a little unpleasant to make a point I would say then they are not very good flamenco guitarists, they are very good guitarists who play flamenco pieces of music.
I know that is not a very nice thing to say but at this time we have plenty of them who can use some machine to measure how fast their picado is but who do not know the difference between the cantes por Soleá and Caña for example.

If you have some time on Skype I am always happy to go through a few things.
Perhaps when I have time I should make a Youtube video about cante chords but it would be better when I have cantaor with me.
Finally, yes Ed you can do whatever you want.
Un saludo
Tomás

Thanks for the encouragement Tomás.
Unfortunately I am one of those not very good flamenco guitarists that play flamenco pieces of music (but I enjoy it very much)
As for cante I think I will have to stick to accompanying myself, something that happens on rare occasions only after the second bottle of wine. I have only seen one person ever play and sing at the same time. In my part of the world I can't find may people interested in listening to flamenco let alone singing, dancing or playing.
Norman Klimans' web site has a huge collection of Siguiryas and Solea in his audio library where my one year of Spanish study is useful. In case anyone is unaware of this resource, it is definitely worth a visit.
Tomás I know we would all look forward to any video you make on this subject.
Thanks
Ed

Great topic, gentlemen. I guess to be a good accompanist you have to know the palos and all their harmonic variations, and the lyrics can help you to identify specific coplas, because one malaguena or fandango (for example) can have a quite different pace and feel than another.
I just saw this wonderful video of Agujetas with Manolo Sanlucar. What is remarkable about Sanlucar's accompaniment is how self-effacing his playing is: no display of virtuosity, no falsetas, just a few licks to fill the silence, careful pacing of the compas, and at the end when Agujeta hits these mythical notes, even Sanlucar runs out of chords, just mumbling a few suggestions of E7 or may be A, because if nobody notices you but the singer shines, you probably really did well. And then there is the other example (along the lines of what Tomas wrote): Spanish language skills and tons of fancy falsetas alone apparently don't make a good tocaor. Luis EL Zambo clearly deserved better.
Saludos
Roland

Hola Roland
Thank you so much for these examples.
When you say the mythical notes and the E7 and A chords do you mean the Cabales that Agujetas sings at the end of Siguiriya as that is quite typical : I mean to say typical in castizo flamenco, the remate por Cabales.
Un saludo
Tomás

Flamencoblues wrote:Great topic, gentlemen. I guess to be a good accompanist you have to know the palos and all their harmonic variations, and the lyrics can help you to identify specific coplas, because one malaguena or fandango (for example) can have a quite different pace and feel than another.
I just saw this wonderful video of Agujetas with Manolo Sanlucar. What is remarkable about Sanlucar's accompaniment is how self-effacing his playing is: no display of virtuosity, no falsetas, just a few licks to fill the silence, careful pacing of the compas, and at the end when Agujeta hits these mythical notes, even Sanlucar runs out of chords, just mumbling a few suggestions of E7 or may be A, because if nobody notices you but the singer shines, you probably really did well. And then there is the other example (along the lines of what Tomas wrote): Spanish language skills and tons of fancy falsetas alone apparently don't make a good tocaor. Luis EL Zambo clearly deserved better.
Saludos
Roland

TomasJimenez wrote: When you say the mythical notes and the E7 and A chords do you mean the Cabales that Agujetas sings at the end of Siguiriya as that is quite typical : I mean to say typical in castizo flamenco, the remate por Cabales.

Tomas,
Yes I do. I think Cabales often is a real challenge to accompany, because many notes really don't fit well the chords (in A major) that are commonly used. Wouldn't you agree? There are probably no chords that really work perfectly. The song, of course, was first and not really "composed" in A major. Probably, because cante jondo has its root in cultures that did not use the European diatonic system, for some ancient palos like Tonas, Martinete etc. appropriate chords have yet to be found . Below is another example of a remate por Cabales. Moraito - obviously a very experienced tocaor - sneaks in a few D majors, but it is imo debatable whether they fit all that well.
Un saludo
Roland

I think the question originally asked is whether if one cannot speak or understand Spanish can they accompany cante. It would be very difficult because as Tomas points out one needs to discuss with the singer what he or she expects. If the singer also knows English then it would be easier. I don't think one has to understand the letra word for word as long as they have an idea of what it is about and a feel for the palo and the way the singer will phrase the letra. The advise I get from the gypsy flamenco artist is to listen and watch performances even if it is on video. It is most important to get an automatic feel for the palo you want to learn. Then training your ear to find the key to match the singers voice. On a siguiriyas you might use an A and Bb chord but need to place cejilla on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or even 5th fret. This is easier than playing open and trying to play difficult chords that may require a lot of practice to accomplish just to match the singers key.

There are hundreds of gypsy artist that sing while they play guitar. Richard is a non gypsy, non Spaniard that does this, however he knows Spanish very well. tech-f8/3-solea-en-youtube-del-guitarra-de-quijote-t464.html