sam's post in the warm up thread prompted me to start this one. i use the chromatic scale in my warm up now but realized i might not know the best way to perform the picado.

i've always used the large joint of the fingers to do the movement as it came most naturally. i always play rest stroke, pushing the string diagonally towards the tapa/adjacent string. in the graf-martinez books, he says to play using the middle joint and that any other way of playing is simply not flamenco. is this true?

to me, the large joint seems to be the most strongest. so why would one use the middle joint instead?

i don't want to start any bad habits.

any suggestions? sam, what is your picado technique?

I am not sure what GM was saying, but to say which joint should be bent and how and any other way isn't flamenco is pure nonsense. If you play a rest stroke then that is flamenco. How you bend your finger joints may effect speed and accuracy, but doesn't make a rest stroke non flamenco.

I don't know what the modern way is, but the old school way I was taught is to play your rest stoke at an angle that allows the finger to rest or stop against the above string, but is played as if you are trying to hit the top of the guitar. I have never paid any attention to which joints bend or how much they bend, just getting a solid and accurate rest stroke!

at_leo_87 wrote:sam's post in the warm up thread prompted me to start this one. i use the chromatic scale in my warm up now but realized i might not know the best way to perform the picado.

i've always used the large joint of the fingers to do the movement as it came most naturally. i always play rest stroke, pushing the string diagonally towards the tapa/adjacent string. in the graf-martinez books, he says to play using the middle joint and that any other way of playing is simply not flamenco. is this true?

to me, the large joint seems to be the most strongest. so why would one use the middle joint instead?

i don't want to start any bad habits.

any suggestions? sam, what is your picado technique?

Hi Leo,

Your question peaked my interest so I watched carefully as I played free strokes [tirando] and rest strokes [picado].

I do not consider myself to represent the 'gold standard', but this is how I do it.

My basic hand position does not change significantly when I switch from free to rest stroke. Nothing really is altered except the finger movement; there is no change in the position of the right wrist or arm.

When I play either tirando or picado there is some movement of all of the finger joints, but with tirando the major movement is with the both the distal and the medial interphalangeal joints, especially the distal ...and there is minimal movement of the metacarpal-phalangeal joint [knuckle].

When I play picado the major movement is with the metacarpal-phalangeal joint, some movement of the proximal [closest to the knuckle] interphalangeal joint and minimal movement of the distal interphalangel joint ... which stays in a 'relaxed' state of extension [not flexed at all, but not rigidly straight].

I hope that this information is of some help to you.

Doog

I tried to do the picados the way GM recommended in his book and I just couldn't get used to the movement. It's just too akward. I agree with Manos Lentas 100%, for GM to say only one way is Flamenco is just plain silly. I play from the large joint (both free and rest strokes) and slide my fore-arm across the lower-bout of the guitar as opposed to bending my wrists in any direction. It works for me, and perhaps makes me les of a flamenco player, but I have fun none-the-less

Manos Lentas wrote:...the ... way I was taught is to play your rest stoke at an angle that allows the finger to rest or stop against the above string, but is played as if you are trying to hit the top of the guitar.

Me too


Alan

Hm picking from the knuckle joint does seem easier, monster player like paco de lucia and paco pena do seem to use the second joint. But observing this video i think sabicas would use his knuckle joint in high speed picado. Or am i mistaken? Please tell what yo think would sabicas use the second or first joint? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uFes1K6zC8

It seems this controversy will never cease. I believe the answer for Sabicas is both - at the same time and to various degrees. Sabicas pulls quite a bit from the second joint. At 4:22 he combines a quick picado with an arpeggio without changing the angle of the fingers, and he is pulling strongly from the 2nd joint.

However, I don't think you can play entirely from the 2nd joint and nobody does. Angle is not necessarily an indication of where the force comes from. Even in Paco de Lucia's picado a lot of force, perhaps most, comes from the knuckle joint despite the sharp angle of his fingers at the 2nd joint. The sharp angle is in part a reflection of his short nails, and together with his overall hand position it allows him to transmit force from both the knuckle and the second joint most efficiently with minimum movement. I believe this is in large part the reason for his speed and unique, compressed sound. Moraita, who has long finger nails uses much more stretched-out fingers and mostly the knuckle joints, but his sound is more geared towards power than speed.

This video by Grisha is very good. http://www.youtube.com/user/mininocurro ... Vcf9K5BTNk

Well after observing Pena, Lucia, Ricardo I have made the switch to using my second joint.. It is harder but after a few months of dedicated practice I will have my speed back. Feels cooler too xD

Hola Amigos
I am not sure if this helps but for picado as for other techniques I prefer not to think to much about the anatomy.
I like to follow the palmas and some how the fingers find what they have to do by themselves.
It seems to work for me to have less miscroscope and more Rioja!!!
Good luck!
Tomás