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pinky stretch

Postby flyeogh » 16 Jan 2009, 16:43

Feliz ano one and all :D

So business is slow and I have more time to play. Set this little Alegrias (*) as an over Xmas task. Capo at 3rd, and then there is this A (2,3 & 4 stopped at second fret) and the need for pinky to stop the fifth string at the fourth fret. Difficult stretch for me so I dab pinky just for the note (or sometimes play it open). Just wondered if it was me and if I should try harder and develop that prehensile pinkie or perfect the dab (hey I think I just invented a new flamenco term :D )

* Juan Martins El Arte page 44

ps tomas any chance of any group courses this year in london?
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby SamC » 16 Jan 2009, 20:31

I am looking at the Alegrias now and still not quite sure what you are referring to. I am not seeing this 5th string fourth fret on page 44. Playing the Dd note (no cejilla) ( different note now with cejilla at 3rd) using pinky with the A chord is common in flamenco and yes you must develop that pinky. My pinkies are short in proportion to my other fingers, so it causes difficulty with such a presentation as this. Very common in flamenco, so get that pinky strong and fast.
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby flyeogh » 17 Jan 2009, 05:50

Sam it is in the Escobilla in the third falseta. p48-49. For sure I can sweat and try to perfect it but equally there is so much to play at times I think best to push on - after all it is for my pleasure :D

And juan loves to put difficult testers in early in his exercises. Just look at the first Solea, Level 0, of his Flamenco Solos. Hammering on and pulling off at level 0 :o But in my early days I even conquered that.

Well I'll get back to practise and make a decision when the rest of the piece gets up to speed. Enjoy, Nigel
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby SamC » 17 Jan 2009, 14:55

OK, I see it now on the descending arpeggios. Best to move on and not get hung up, however when you get the piece down without the Dd, I would advise trying to add it then. Maybe try using just the 1st finger for A chord so to give more stretch to the hand. Of course getting a good clean A chord this way and leaving the E 1st open is a challenge. I can do some of these stretches, but I play off the side of the little finger and it doesn't make a nice clean note.

Here is the reason this is important IMO ... those bass notes are the melody. Try playing the bass note without the arpeggios and you will see what I mean. You are substituting an A note for the Dd.... here is melody ... E 4th string, Dd 5th string, E 4th string, then remate simplified A 5th string, A 3rd string, Dd 2nd string ... then E, Dd, E then remate simplified E 6th, E 4th string, B 2nd string, etc.

Since you are like me and playing for your own enjoyment or sometimes persecution, if it sounds ok to you then forget it. I don't know if you have worked on the Bulerias yet, but if not a surprise awaits you on page 78, 5th line down ... the alzapua. Being the Bd chord and the Dd note one might think it easier, but this little trick cramps my hand and just destroys the work I put into the rest of the piece.

Anxious to hear that recording. I scrapped my Solea featuring falsetas from the masters as I have been recording it and it has serious problems. I have all the falsetas on compas individually, but together because of speed differences, the compas fails badly. By changing speed of the faulty falsetas, it doesn't sound right, so I messed with phrasing and then it sounded good to me playing it, but on the recording it was awful. Several months of practice down the drain except I know over a 100 old masters Solea falsetas now and someday maybe I can use them.
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby TomasJimenez » 17 Jan 2009, 22:14

Hola Nigel,

I was teaching today and discussing the reaching the sixth string at 5th fret with the small finger while holding a bar first finger across 4,3,2,1 at second fret.

The example was the introduction of Almoraíma which is a Bulería by Paco de Lucía.

I had the following idea and I hope it might be some help.
I suggested to my student that to develop the left hand both stretch and the holding of bar chords in general I would think rather than hold on for a long time it might help to squeeze and release so that you can develop the correct strong holding just for the time that you need it.

I think this is similar to what you are saying.
Maybe after a long time of very short squeeze and release the time that the left hand can hold a position may increase.
So I think that I am thinking to develop gradually.

I am not sure but I think sports people who work with weights sometime talk about making an effort then letting go rather than just holding a weight still for a long time. It might be helpful but I am not really sure if it is relevant.

Also I noticed that is seems ok to me that while holding a chord and reaching with another finger then it is Ok to let the fingers for the main chord to move a little, to bend a little , not to be rigid.

I would love to give a group class. At the moment I do that a lot in Adult Education in Milton Keynes and may do so at other locations. Also I do Saturdays for adult education and provided that a guitarist is of the same level as the ones who attend the ongoing course I am sure they would be welcome for the Saturday course.

I will put details to my web site as courses happen.

Hope the New Year is starting well for you.

Saludos

Tomás
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby SamC » 20 Jan 2009, 17:47

Nigel, Here is a butchered Guajira I came up with just for pinky practice. Not really flamenco but good fun practice. It uses an E7 chord and your pinky plays the G# at 4th fret 6th string. Then use an A chord and play the melody by using the pinky on the 4th fret of the 5th and 4th string. Then go to D chord and use the pinky to play the 4th fret 1st string to make a melody. It is real lame but an easy fun way to practice using the pinky while holding the E7, A. and D chords. i destroyed the ending, but maybe you get the idea. Use plucking and arpeggios and even throw in some ligato. Just practice not meant to be played before the queen.
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Guajira pinky practice.mp3
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby flyeogh » 20 Jan 2009, 19:26

Thanks Sam I'll give it a whirl 8-)
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby SamC » 21 Jan 2009, 17:09

Your welcome Nigel. Here is the finish without dead notes. A similar finish also can be used with Alegrias.

___A__D__E7__A______________________________
----0----2---4---5-------------------------------------------------------
----2----3---3---2-------------------------------------------------------
----2----2---4---2-------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 3rd chord (E7)is a barre at 2nd fret behind a D7 chord
The 4th chord (A) is a barre at 2nd fret with pinky on 5th fret.

Alegrias finish
______________G____G____________________________
--2----4----2-------------------4-----5---------------------------
--3----5----3-------------------3-----2---------------------------
--2----4----2-------------------4-----2---------------------------
--4----6----4-------------------2-----2----------------------------
--5----7----5-------------------2-----0----------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Guajira finish.mp3
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby SamC » 21 Jan 2009, 18:38

Here is audio clip for the Alegrias finish above. Not very well done, but maybe will give you an idea of pinky importance. I don't have much strength in my hands for barre chords, especially this D and E (barre behind C chord).
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STE-002.mp3
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Re: pinky stretch

Postby SamC » 22 Jan 2009, 22:25

Nigel, I worked on the JM Alegrias today and tried playing the escobilla falseta #3 substituting the open A note on the 5th string for the D#, the pinky stretch at the 4th fret 5th string. If it is substituted, it loses the melody we see in other falsetas. For instance in falseta 1 try changing the D# to A and you will see what I mean. It is less noticeable in falseta 3 because of the arpeggios, but still loses something very flamenco IMO. If you have made it this far in this Alegrias, then I know you can stretch that pinky. As Tomas said maybe a matter of positioning the A chord so you can reach. Also the same applies to the G# note on the 6th string that is played while holding the E7. I practiced it without a cejilla to make me stretch more so when it had the cejilla at the 3rd fret, my little finger was more on its tip. Maybe try practicing without the capo as an exercise. I am anxious for you to record this beautiful palo and inspire me to work on it again.
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