Hello,

I feel like I am posting a lot today, but here is another question for you all. I have been trying to learn flamenco for the past 10-12 years, and like many people I just started listening to everything and trying to understand. Every time I have come into contact with a teacher I have started over to correct my mistakes in technique and of course compas. I am feeling like I am going to start over again now in the sense that I will go back to the foundation of each palo. Just the basic rhythm and compas with rasgueaos and minimal falsetas.

1: Do any of you play along with a simple and normal metronome (not a recording of cajon and palmas of a flamenco metronome)?

2: do you play without a metronome but count everything as you play (this to me seems very very difficult to do). I have started imagining all of the falsetas and parts I know how to play and counting as I hear them in my mind

3: Finally, is it ok to learn things from a variety of teachers? let's face it in this age I am sure we are all picking up ideas from different sources. I have at least 2 teachers who I have recorded and met with in the past and at least 5 instructional videos. Is there a conflict here?

Interesting questions.

Metronome ... I think they have a place in classical music, but are a problem in flamenco. One who depends on a metronome becomes too mechanical. Compas must be learned and played from feeling. Best way to learn compas is by listening IMO. I improved my compas when I quit trying to use a metronome of any kind and stopped counting except what came natural and subconsciously.

Counting ... some rhythms and falsetas are impossible to count. They are impossible to write accuracy in music and trying to count them is impossible.

Teachers ... yes, learn from as many teachers as you can. It will help you find your style.

I think the best device one can have in learning flamenco is a small digital recorder. Record what you practice and then go back and listen to it and see what you need to change. Try to do palmas along with it.

I found when I focused more on melody and feeling the music, my compas got better automatically. Flamenco is about emotion and expression. Robotic aids can kill this fast and become an addiction. I cannot emphasize the importance of listening enough. It is surprising how much of what you hear will come to you subconsciously in the future.

Compas is of vast importance but making it mechanical can be a real buzz kill. If you cannot feel it, you cannot play it!

Hello,

thanks so much for the advice Sam! I definitely don't want my playing to become mechanical, it's just I am not sure sometimes if I am going out of compas. Your idea of self-recording is so brilliant I can't believe I didn't think of it myself. That is the perfect way to make sure we are staying in compas without having to follow a metronome or something.

Can you recommend as small digital audio recorder that is affordable? (I realize this may be covered in another section of the forum). Would a digital voice recorder be alright?

Thanks!

H

TheTocaor wrote:Hello,
2: do you play without a metronome but count everything as you play (this to me seems very very difficult to do).

No, I don't normally count as I play and I doubt that professional players normally count. Counting can help beginners. It also can help anyone work out why the timing of something they are playing is wrong. However, counting, and even foot-tapping in my opinion, unnecessarily adds to the workload of someone who knows and internally "feels the rhythm" of what they are playing.

Consider simpler music, such as a waltz. Do you think dance-band members routinely count 1,2,3,1,2,3, etc. while playing a waltz? They might count 1,2,3 out-loud while teaching a beginner to play a waltz. On very rare occasions they might even count while playing a complicated measure themselves that didn't sound right to help workout what they are doing wrong, but I can't image that most professional players repeatedly count waltz rhythms as they play.

Of course, most flamenco rhythms are more complicated than waltz rhythms, but not complicated enough that someone who has listened to and played lots of flamenco needs to count. Most anyone who has listened to much flamenco will immediately recognize compás mistakes. I agree with Sam's suggestion to record practice sessions and then to check your playing by clapping and counting-out the compáses you played while you listen.

I think someone who is having trouble playing compáses correctly will benefit more from listening extensively to traditional flamenco than from trying to always count while they play. I am not suggesting that counting may not help in the early stages of learning to play, but after that the most important aspect of being able to get compáses right is knowing exactly how flamenco rhythms should sound.

I often invent complicated new falsetas as I play and while doing so the guitar almost seems to play itself with no conscious attention to compás. Afterward I sometimes wonder whether compáses played like that were actually correct, but when I playback recordings and check, nearly always I find they were played correctly. Various high-tech studies have found that our subconscious minds operate much faster than do parts involved in conscious thinking. I think the key to playing correctly is to educate our minds as to exactly what we are trying to achieve and then to let high-speed processing functions in subconscious areas of our brains take over heavy-workload real-time processing.

-Bob

Harry, I use the Zoom H2 handheld digital recorder with built in mics. I have recommended it to many that have bought it and have been well pleased. It does everything I need. It can also be carried in your pocket to concerts, etc and make great recordings. Never regretted buying it. It has a pitch tuner and metronome built in, but I have never used either. No reverb but it makes great natural recordings. I sometimes don't realize I am rushing phrases until I record and listen back.

Sam,

wow this machine looks incredible from what little research I have done. It is just the perfect thing for me when recording my playing or little demos. You can obviously upload the things you record to a computer through the usb right?

I am definitely getting one of these!

Thanks again!

H

Manos Lentas wrote:Harry, I use the Zoom H2 handheld digital recorder with built in mics. I have recommended it to many that have bought it and have been well pleased. It does everything I need. It can also be carried in your pocket to concerts, etc and make great recordings. Never regretted buying it. It has a pitch tuner and metronome built in, but I have never used either. No reverb but it makes great natural recordings. I sometimes don't realize I am rushing phrases until I record and listen back.

Hola Sam
I wish I had known about the Zoom H2. I bought the H8 which is a big studio I have to et up each time and I find it complicated to use and of course I needed a microphone also.
I am sure the H2 would have been more than enough.
By the way I always recommned my students to record our classes whether only in sound or with their little digital cameras in which case they get a movie to watch later.
I think seeing what we have done can be helpful.
Saludos
Tomás