I have heard these guitars and they sound a lot better than any factory guitar at the same price $2500. Here is one for half that price. Don't know anything about the seller, but this might be worth investigating if you are looking for an authentic flamenco guitar that has a good action and response. I will remove this post after the auction is over. Zavelatas sells these new and you can go to his site to hear sound clips. Every guitar is different, but never heard one of these that was bad or marginal. http://cgi.ebay.com/Beautiful-Manuel-Ad ... 2a046fd3bf

I agree. These guitars are great at $2500, and for possibly $1500 I doubt that anyone could do better. They all sound consistently very similar on Zavaletas - I listened to four blancas. So I would think that this one would be just as good. However, the seller says no returns, and with neither seeing it nor playing it, that's a bit risky.

I followed the information and agree with you but one thing related..if these guitars cost about $2500 can anyone explain to me why people offer me about $3500 for one of my Gerundino? Do you all think that is about right price for Gerundino?

It's very possible that Zavaletas was the original seller----potential buyer could contact him and find out and, if so, ask about the guitar.

TomasJimenez wrote:I followed the information and agree with you but one thing related..if these guitars cost about $2500 can anyone explain to me why people offer me about $3500 for one of my Gerundino? Do you all think that is about right price for Gerundino?

Tomas, If you look at places like Guitar Salon you will see those offering you $3500 for your Gerundino are trying to steal it and possibly for resale. What an insult! Look at Guitar Salon's Gerundinos. 1962 on sale for $8,0000, 1998 for $9,995, 1990 for $10,500, and a 1997 $12,000. I have seen seriously damaged and poorly repaired Gerundinos going for $6,0000.

The only response I had to my ad to sell my Dominguez was a guy that wanted to let me know it was overpriced and he would make an offer for much less if it wouldn't insult me. I told him it was an insult. He was no doubt a dealer. Flamenco guitar pricing is all over the place. We have collectors values, players values, and dealers values. A player might offer less for a guitar like a Gerundino because they cannot afford the collectors prices that I think Guitar Salon is asking. However if they were a professional making a decent living performing and they wanted a Gerundino bad enough, then they are going to have to pay close to a collectors price to get one. I will guess if you wanted to sell your Gerundino and put a price of $6,000 on it, it would sell fast, quick, and in a hurry. A buyer would probably fly to you to pick it up and thank you three times for the "gift."

Guitar depreciation .... It seems that Spanish made guitars have soared in price for non euro countries because of the conversion rate increasing considerably. If one buys a new guitar such as this one for $2500 new, then even if it wasn't played, two months later the original buyer now seller can expect a 40% loss which is in my opinion a much better buy and investment for a buyer than a new factory made for the same price of $1500. Maybe in 10 years if kept in good shape, the value may rise up over $2000. I think if one buys a flamenco from one of the good USA or UK, etc., makers for $3000 then not only are they getting a superior guitar than a Spanish one that converts to $5,000, but it will devalue less.

Sam I would also pay a premium for a guitar played by someone like Tomas. You know it has been in the hands of an expert, you can see fotos/videos of him playing it, and if you collect it he will probably give you a free lesson (You could also listen to him playing it and therefore could never say "it's not me, it's the guitar " )

The problem with Ebay is that there is always a risk. I was always told if you can't touch it then don't. That said I bought my Alhambra 10fc unseen on Ebay.es. It turned out to be a great price and the guy even paid for the courier to Madrid which was not part of the deal (OK in reality his employer paid). But that was only the equvalent of $600 so not a great risk.

ps. I note Anders (Eliasson) is now asking 2800 Es for his handmades so a steady rise from the 1800 Es I paid 4 years ago. Sam how does that compare with your makers on the west coast?

Nigel, The Andres would convert to about $3900. To give you some idea the $3900 Anders might compare to Northwest USA makers, a Shelton priced at $3000, or a Stansell priced at $4500, a Hippner at $2500 or a Tsiorba priced at $2700. From the reports I have received and from videos and sound clips, I think the Tsiorba is by far a superior flamenco to any of the others, but he isn't as well known yet and that accounts for his price. I will get mine in a couple of months and can then comment from first hand experience. Now most of the California makers (that I know of) that would compare to the $3900 Anders go for more $4500 up, except the Vergara that is around $3800. This is all very general as prices vary with buyers choice of woods, tuners, etc.

If I never bought a flamenco guitar unless I could play on it, then I wouldn't have any. The only one I had that was a little disappointing for my preferences for the price was a Pedro Maldonado. The basses were to dull and boomy lacking the growl and response I like for flamenco. The best one I have ever had and worth more than the price I paid at the time is my Dominguez. The Diaz was the best for the price and I bought it used on ebay. The only problem it had was a bad French polish job, but still worth the $2000 I paid for tone and playability. I should say that the only flamenco i bought in person was my Mexican Pimental in 1971. Bought it from a music store in Mexico.

It is a tough business and one can lose a lot of money trading guitars. Good point on Tomas Gerundino having extra value because of its history. I still cannot believe someone would have the audacity to offer such a low price for such a guitar.

Anders price are still lower than most of the makers in Spain that make a flamenco of the same quality. I would guess most would price around $5000. The fame of the name has a lot to do with it.

Hola Amigos
Thank you so much for the useful replies about my Gerundino guitars.
I have been listening again to the guitar of Peter Tsiorba. They sound fabulous. Very flamenco. Please give more information about these guitars as you know more. I am very interested.
Saludos

Tomás

TomasJimenez wrote:Hola Amigos
Thank you so much for the useful replies about my Gerundino guitars.
I have been listening again to the guitar of Peter Tsiorba. They sound fabulous. Very flamenco. Please give more information about these guitars as you know more. I am very interested.
Saludos

Tomás

Peter Tsiorba said in a recent e-mail that my guitar was finished and ready to ship. I will post photos and a sound clip or two when I receive it.

-Bob