I think I originally posted this in the wrong place - it probably should have been here.

Any tech people here? I would like to record myself and maybe upload it to this site. I have been given an old analog four track, and a really good Shure mike. What do I have to do, and how do I do it. I'm tech challenged, incidentally, but I can follow instructions well enough.

Ramon, First you must realize that if you record analog then you must have a way to convert it to digital to put on your computer. I messed around with computer programs and used a mic hooked to the computer years ago and it worked, but was a hassle. I finally bought the Zoom H2 digital handheld recorder with adapters to mount it on a mic stand. It is easy to use to record and easy to convert the files to mp3 and download them to your computer. Once on your computer they can be loaded to the foro just like a photo. You might see the post Bob made on recording from a cassette. It would be similar to using your reel. You will still need a program on your computer for conversion to digital and mp3. Sounds complicated, but really simple once you go through it a few times. What I like about the Zoom recorder is it is portable and has everything needed to download files to the computer and convert them, clip them, etc. Here is the post Bob made on the recording forum in answer to Tomas Jimenez.

There are a variety of options and considerations related to your original question "How can I record my cassettes onto CD?" Some of them also apply to another common question many guitarists have - "How can I record my own playing on a computer hard disk or CD?" A reasonably complete explanation of the pros and cons of the many options could fill a small book. Maybe when I have more time I will write not a book, but a long guide aimed at typical needs of flamenco guitarists that can be posted here at the Old School Flamenco Foro.

Most of the various options are not difficult or expensive (although at a professional level some can be expensive). The problems relate more to understanding audio quality, convenience, flexibility, and cost differences between methods and then with that knowledge selecting the best combination of options to achieve end objectives. There aren't methods that are universally best under all circumstances. Some are relatively easy for anyone, regardless of their knowledge of electronics or computers. Others are easy for someone with that knowledge, but extremely difficult without it. Some are free of cost, others are expensive. Some yield professional quality results, others don't.

I will address only one option related to your overall question here -- The best way to send audio signals from common cassette players to a computer.

Most audio cassette players only have electrical analog signal outputs, although some high-end players also have optical digital signal outputs. I will not address using optical digital signal outputs here, because your cassette player most likely has only electrical analog output signals.

If your cassette player has only an earphone output jack it will be necessary to use a stereo-earphone-jack to line-jack adapter cable between your cassette player and your computer as someone previously recommended (they wrote phono, but obviously meant line). Those cables are inexpensive, but don't expect clerks in most sales shops to understand what you need, because they generally have very little knowledge of electronics. However, many cassette players, including nearly all of the better ones, also have a line output jack. It generally is better to use a line output jack than an earphone output jack if a line jack is available. There are three reasons:

* The electrical signals supplied internally to line jacks have a different electrical impedance than the signals supplied internally to earphone jacks. A greatly simplified explanation of electrical impedance that is precisely accurate only under a special condition that rarely exists in practical applications is that electrical impedance equals the root-mean-square ratio of voltage to current in a dynamic electrical circuit (a circuit where voltage and current are changing). A full explanation would require me to write a text book and plenty of them already exist. However, it isn't necessary to understand anything about that except to know that for best results, the impedance of a source signal (in your case the signal coming from your CD player, should match the intrinsic surge impedance of a load (in your case, the audio input circuit of your computer), because impedance mismatches tend to cause several direct and indirect problems:

o Communication circuit impedance mismatches reduce the amplitude (audio volume in your case) of the signals transfered from source to load (cassette player to computer in your case).

o In most cases audio communication circuit impedance mismatches indirectly cause three types of audio distortion; i.e., frequency response distortion, harmonic distortion, and intermodulation distortion. Frequency response distortion changes the amplitude ratios of low, medium and high pitched audio tones like changes to amplifier bass, midrange, and treble tone controls do. Harmonic distortion results in the creation of audio tones that didn't exist in an original recording. The end effect is as though while a guitarist was playing some note a ghost guitarist was playing some different note several octaves higher in pitch. Intermodulation distortion causes one note to change the sound quality of another note where two or more notes are played simultaneously. All these distortion effects obviously tend to degrade various qualities of most audio signals.
* If your computer is connected to your cassette player earphone jack you won't be able to plug an earphone into the cassette player to monitor the audio while you are recording (although it can be monitored at the computer in most cases) without using an audio splitter. Audio splitters can compound the problems mentioned above.

* If you use an earphone to monitor the music you are recording and the earphone and computer both share the earphone output jack from your cassette player, you will not be able to adjust your listening volume without also changing the volume of your audio recording. Cassette player volume controls do not normally change output signal levels from line jacks, so if you instead connect your computer to the line jack and an earphone to the earphone jack you will be able to adjust the earphone volume without affecting the recording sound level.

Digital computers use digital signals internally. Because most cassette players provide only analog output signals, it necessary to convert analog signals to digital. Fortunately, most computers have an internal audio card or similar internal electronic circuits on the mother board that perform analog to digital signal conversions. Most computers have both an analog line input connector (jack) and a microphone input connector (jack). You will only need a standard audio line jumper cable (available inexpensively anywhere where audio components are sold) to connect the line output jack of your cassette player to the line input jack of your computer. Connecting that way will result in a proper impedance match and earphone volume level adjustments will not affect the volume or audio quality of your recordings.

-Bob

Sam –
Wow! Thanks for all that info. I actually understood most of it. My biggest problem is that it is my understanding that at some point I have to get to my sound card which is inside the processor. I wish there was some way I would not have to do that. I think – maybe – that if I can somehow record onto a CD, or transfer an analog recording onto a CD, then I could upload by putting the CD into the CD tray. Is that correct? That way I wouldn't have to open the computer. If that is correct, is there any inexpensive way to somehow or other get my playing onto a CD?

If your computer has a mic jack, then you have what is necessary to hook up a mic and record your guitar playing. The program that probably came with the computer might be one that does only short clips and won't have good editing features, but the internet offers several free programs to download that might fit your needs. if you plan to do this a lot, then paying for a better program might be worth while. Once you record to the program, you save it in a document file labeled as you see fit. Best way to save them is in mp3 so they can easily be uploaded to forums, etc. If you notice when you make a post, at the bottom there is a feature for uploads from your computer. You click on the browse and then view your document files and then upload the chosen one. The first question is does your computer have a mic jack? if so no worries about accessing the sound card or tearing into your computer if so. Even cheap mics can give nice results. Also try to locate what program your computer has by looking in "control panel" then "sound and audio devices." Let us know what you have and several others on the foro are more expert than I. Bob is very expert on computers and recording and can explain things better.

Hola Ramón

Here I can share some things that I have tried and like you I want to not spend too much.
Digital camera for sound and image.
Do you have one of those simple digital cameras that it seems everyone has these days?
You can take photos but also record a movie and that movie is perfect for YouTube etc.
If for any reason you prefer not to make a movie you can either point the camera at some part of the guitar close up or you can get free software that you can use to extract the sound form the movie. It will convert it I think to the correct format for sending to Internet places.

Microphone straight to computer
Oops I just noticed Sam has said it already!

Our first computer that we bought in Spain was very basic and it came with a microphone and some software. I was able to record straight to the computer and the sound was really not at all bad.

If your sound card is good enough to see YouTube and hear the examples here I Imagine that it would be good enough o record in that way.
Maybe you can get just a simple microphone and record straight to yo9t computer.
I guess you would need to know the exact specifications of your computer. I mean to say what it includes and how powerful it is.
Cassette to CD

Finally I think from what you say that you can record onto a cassette.
There are machines that you can buy that can copy a cassette to CD or I think that they connect to the computer and then once you have your music on computer you can record it to CD and make MP3 files which can be send via the Internet.
I keep thinking of buying one of those when I have a little m retime. If I do I have not thought very carefully but I am tempted to offer a free service to members here.
You send me a copy of your cassettes (keep the original) in the normal post5. I convert them and send you can a CD in normal post and MP3 electronically.
If I find an interest I may well do that if I do actually decide to buy the machine.
I will keep you informed.

Saludos

Tomás

TomasJimenez wrote:Finally I think from what you say that you can record onto a cassette.
There are machines that you can buy that can copy a cassette to CD or I think that they connect to the computer and then once you have your music on computer you can record it to CD and make MP3 files which can be send via the Internet.

Used audio cassette recorders are essentially free, because they are obsolete and few people want them anymore. They also are generally smaller and more portable than desktop computers. However, they record a magnetic analog of an original sound signal on magnetic tape, whereas digital computers make a digital recording by saving a long series of numbers that mathematically describe an original sound signal. Those two very different recording methods result in different types of audio distortions when recordings are played back. A fundamental problem where both methods are used, such as where original sound is recorded on magnetic tape and then the tape is played-back and the audio signal from the tape player is digitized by a computer, is that the final digital recording has both types of audio distortions. So, the advantage of the tape cassette method is ultra low cost and portability and the disadvantage is more distorted recordings.

Where portability isn't important, a much better method is to connect a microphone directly to a computer, so sound signals from the microphone can be digitized directly without first suffering the distortion caused by analog tape recording. Where portability is important, a much better method is to record with a portable digital audio recorder instead of a portable analog cassette tape recorder. Digital audio recorders describe a recorded audio signal with a long series of numbers, just as computers do, so recordings made by a digital audio recorder can be copied directly to a computer without any need for analog-to-digital conversion. That direct-to-digital method provides substantially better end-results and is the method used almost exclusively by professionals these days.

Professional digital audio recorders can be expensive, but even very low cost digital recorders generally produce significantly better quality recordings than can be obtained by recording first on analog tape. I have an iAudio portable audio player that is generally similar an Apple iPod, except that it has significantly better playback audio quality and it has a built-in microphone and digital audio recorder. Even though the manufacturer probably included the recorder mostly to be able brag about having a feature that Apple iPods don't have, it makes surprising good-quality guitar recordings. It also was essentially free, because I bought the iAudio player for its playback capability without realizing at the time of purchase that it had a built-in digital recorder. It is small enough to fit in a pocket or a guitar case and has enough recording space and battery capacity to record more than 30 hours continuously without being recharged. An entertainer could always have a recorder like that with them, could let it run constantly whenever they are playing, and then could select out especially nice portions they want to save on a computer, post to a website, distribute on promotional CD's, or whatever.

I am not especially recommending the iAudio product that I have, because I bought it four years ago and it is no longer being manufactured. However, a variety of relatively inexpensive portable digital recorders are available. I highly recommend that alternative compared to tape recording. My iAudio device is very small and completely self-contained. There are no cables to become tangled, nothing to forget to bring, nothing to connect, and nothing to lose, except the iAudio device itself. There is a main power switch and a record button. Recordings start instantly when the record button is depressed and stop instantly when it is pressed again. My iAudio device can be plugged into the USB port of any PC, Mac or Linux computer and recorded files can be accessed from the computer just as if they had been saved originally to the computer hard disk. Nothing could be simpler. No special software is required on the computer unless someone wants to chop a long recording into sections, as likely would be the case where a long playing session has been recorded as a single audio file. A variety of software products can do that, and some of them are free (the ones that aren't free have advanced features, such as digital filters to reduce certain types of background noise, special processing to add echo effects that will make a recording you made on your patio sound like it was made in a cathedral, etc.).

-Bob

To Bob –

Well, you certainly are mighty knowledgeable about these things. I do understand what you say about the desirability of recording straight to digital, rather than converting analog to digital. My problem is that I don't seem to have a mike jack on my computer, and in any case, even if I somehow get it all on my computer, then I wouldn't know what to do. It probably requires software etc. and a process, and I'm a dinosaur. But maybe you could answer one question for me. Assuming I can somehow get an analog tape recording put onto a CD, as Tomas has generously suggested he might possibly do for some of us, let's say I have six tracks on the CD. Is it possible 1) to upload to the website by putting the CD in my CD tray, and 2) if so, is it possible to upload say just one given track out of the six, and not the others? Uploading from a CD is something I think I could do okay.

Tyrannosarus Rex


To Tomas –

That is a very wonderful offer you are considering – to convert our tapes to CD. You mentioned a machine that does that. I did some research, and there are all kinds, but I found one that really looks good to me (what do I know) and it sells for only $70. They claim that it not only converts cassette tapes to CD, but also LP to CD, and they say that it's really easy to use. If this thing really works, I would look into one for myself at some point in the future when I have enough time to do some recording, because – as most of us do – I have this huge collection of old flamenco LPs, 78s, cassettes etc., that I would love to put on CD. In particular I have half a dozen anthologies, including Pepe de la Matrona, Cantaores Famosos, Anthology of Cante Flamenco, and of course the famous one from the fifties by Perico del Lunar. I treasure these, and would love to get them safely on CD, because they are irreplaceable.

Anyway the website is: http://www.Dak.com
Click on either "LP to CD" or "Tapes to CD." It's all the same machine that does both. Maybe you can take a look at that and see if it would suit your purposes.

Ramon

Prominent Critic wrote:My problem is that I don't seem to have a mike jack on my computer, and in any case, even if I somehow get it all on my computer, then I wouldn't know what to do. It probably requires software etc. and a process, and I'm a dinosaur.

If you are able to listen to music with your computer it is extremely likely that it has microphone input jack. If it is a desktop PC the jack probably will be located somewhere on the backside, although it might be on the front. If it is a laptop computer, the jack may be in the front, on either side, or in the back. It probably will mini-jack like the small jacks most modern consumer-quality earphones plug into. You may only see is a 3.5 mm diameter unlabeled hole or more likely two or three such holes near to each other. If your computer has two, one probably will be a microphone input jack and other will be an earphone output jack. If you find three 3.5 mm diameter holes near each other, one probably will be a microphone input jack, one will be a line-level input jack, and the third will be an earphone output jack. Instead of labels, if you look carefully you may see miniature images of a microphone and of headphones stamped into the metal panel the jacks are in. However, those images are sometimes difficult to recognize unless someone knows what they are looking for.

Computers that have high-quality sound systems sometimes have 6.3 mm (1/4 inch) diameter microphone connectors and various other types of microphone connectors commonly used in the professional recording industry in addition to mini-jacks. The computer I am typing this message on has those types of microphone connectors, because I installed a professional sound system when I built it. However, your computer most likely will have 3.5 mm diameter mini-jacks if it is an ordinary computer that was purchased from a retail sales outlet.

Prominent Critic wrote:But maybe you could answer one question for me. Assuming I can somehow get an analog tape recording put onto a CD, as Tomas has generously suggested he might possibly do for some of us, let's say I have six tracks on the CD. Is it possible 1) to upload to the website by putting the CD in my CD tray, and 2) if so, is it possible to upload say just one given track out of the six, and not the others? Uploading from a CD is something I think I could do okay.

That depends on how music is saved on a CD. The recording industry saves music on commercial music CD's using a special protocol that is different than any of the various protocols normally used to save music files to computer hard disks. It is possible to convert those files (using a process generally called "ripping") to standard computer music files. Many audio programs have "ripping" capability, including the Windows Media Player that Microsoft bundles with all U.S. versions of its Windows operating systems. However, a minor bit of know-how is required to rip CD music files to computer files, so they can be uploaded to a website like this one.

However, if music is saved to a CD using most any of the various audio file protocols commonly used by computers, instead the protocol used by commercial music publishers, it is possible to directly upload music from a CD to a website like this one without need for file protocol conversion. So long as multiple music selections on a single CD have been saved as separate music files you will be able to selectively upload one or more in any random sequence.

-Bob

Bob –

With the kind of incredible expertise you have on this subject, am I correct in assuming that this is your profession. Or something related. That's pretty awesome stuff. Thank you for all the info. For me it's a hopeless case to go straight into my computer. There's no mike jack in front, and I've got so much stuff on my desk surrounding the processor that it's an ordeal to get to the back. But in any case, even if I could, it would involve doing things with software etc., and I know myself – I won't be able to do it. But since you said I could do it by putting a CD into the tray, well that's something I can handle. If you get a moment, could you take a look at that machine I mentioned on Dak.com, and give us your expert opinion on whether an amateur like myself could use that to transfer my great old anthologies from LP to CD. Also, if you think it's a decent machine, Tomas might be interested in it also.

Muchas gracias –
Ramon

Ramon, The converter sold by Dak is an easy way to make the analog to digital conversion and the price is fair. The results will not be as good as a machine costing several hundred, but it should work great for what you want to do. The resulting CD will no doubt be better than the original tape or LP. To record yourself playing, I recommend the Zoom H2 for simplicity and quality of recording live guitar, etc. The beauty of it is you can take it to concerts and get good results with it. Easy to download on your computer. I have had mine for a few years and it works better than other devices costing four times the price. http://www.zoom.co.jp/english/products/h2/