Bob wrote:Furthermore, each time we play music incorrectly, we once again practice playing it wrong, which makes it even more difficult to unlearn the wrong way and learn to play it right.

That is a good point that seems true. However, almost no one can play correctly when they are beginning, so if playing something wrong makes it more difficult to learn to play it right, how can a beginner ever improve?

Lucas

Tricky problem, indeed. But I think that it's a combination of going slowly enough to avoid gross mistakes and watching carefully enough to catch minor mistakes as soon as they happen so that they can be corrected immediately. Observation and correction avoid repetition of inevitable mistakes. So it's not so much perfection at all times as correction at all times.

lucas wrote:

Bob wrote:Furthermore, each time we play music incorrectly, we once again practice playing it wrong, which makes it even more difficult to unlearn the wrong way and learn to play it right.

That is a good point that seems true. However, almost no one can play correctly when they are beginning, so if playing something wrong makes it more difficult to learn to play it right, how can a beginner ever improve?

Lucas

If someone learning to play something new played all aspects of it wrong, practice playing it that way would be counterproductive and no number of practice times would ever enable them to play it correctly. However, in the usual case someone learning to do something new, whether it is play music, dance, or weld two pieces of metal together, is able to accomplish some steps correctly during their initial attempt. They become progressively better at doing those parts they have been doing right as they practice repeatedly over time. However, the mistakes they have been making become more than just mistakes, they become strong habits that are increasingly difficult to change. That is why it is so important to do all aspects correctly from the outset, and in the case of learning to play music, to play it as slowly as may be necessary to play it right each time it is practiced. After learning to play it right, then someone can work on playing faster, but the emphasis always should be on getting all aspects right, rather than on speed. Speed will come with practice, but no amount of practice playing something wrong will fix playing it wrong.

One of the great advantages of having a teacher is that a teacher is far more apt to notice initial mistakes than is someone trying to learn on their own. Someone learning on their own often thinks they are playing correctly, or nearly so, when they are not, whereas a teacher will correct a student's playing before they have wasted countless hours learning to play wrong. I say that from the perspective of someone who has never had a guitar teacher, but also from the perspective of a college professor who taught hundreds of students things other than music. Self-instruction has merits, but good teachers have value far beyond what they generally cost.

-Bob

Ram,
I agree with all the above about speed. Compas is the basis; sound is what brings the music alive. I really like your sound, which has strength and clarity. With increasing confidence and command of your compas your speed will automatically increase.
Best regards,
Roland

Don't worry about it. In my opinion practically everything – with the possible exception of Bulerias, which also can be effectively played somewhat slower - is played too fast, and doesn't allow time for emotional expression. Especially such palos as Siguiriyas and Soleares.

Focus on getting the compas right, and understanding the "aire" of each palo. If you play it properly in compas and with understanding of the palo it will sound fine.

Here is an example of a slow Soleares. He is frequently out of compas, but then so was his uncle Diego, who taught him. Nevertheless you can see that you can play Soleares and other palos much slower than you normally hear them played, and allow them to breathe, and express something, as Diego does here.

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Ramon

Prominent Critic wrote:
Here is an example of a slow Soleares. He is frequently out of compas, but then so was his uncle Diego, who taught him. Nevertheless you can see that you can play Soleares and other palos much slower than you normally hear them played, and allow them to breathe, and express something, as Diego does here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tlk1YhlB3Iw

Ramon

Ramon, I would disagree that this solea is frequently out of compas. Diego del Gastor did not teach his nephew Diego with structured lessons as so many think. He and all the other nephews never received lessons or any regimented instructions. They learned by watching, listening, and growing up around flamenco. Diego gave lessons to the foreigners, never the nephews. I have never heard Diego (uncle or nephew) play out of compas. Diego played at times falsetas in 6th. Two short 6th falsetas made the 12 count. Sometimes this can be confusing when trying to analyze compas.

Here is an example of slow playing with real emotion by a flamenco legend that is perfect for compas. How do you count the compas? You cannot, it is an emotional thing that has to be felt.

Sam:
That was a heck of a video.
I just can't express what I felt, if I can later I will post. In the mean time I just will try to soak it in.

Ram, Here are some of the Gitano greats at a juerga where compas and spontaneity rule. There are several of these videos from this juerga on YouTube and all worth watching to get the feel of the real deal and help learning to feel compas without trying to count it. Watching and listening to the real deal with singing, dancing, palmas, and guitar accompaniment is valuable to learning compas and then feeling it (rather than counting) while playing solo flamenco guitar.