I have been learning for a while now, I work very hard on Compas, but I am quite slow, if I speed up I loose my count.
Is it worth sacrificing a little compas for speed?

Can you please tell me acceptable speed fpr diferent palos:

Solea: xxx BPM
Seguiriyas: xxx BMP
etc....

There is no set, average, or perfect speed. Siguiriyas, Solea, and even Alegrias and Bulerias can be played very slow and have a great sound and effect. If you can play slow and accurately for compas, then you are on the right track. I don't think you should worry about the speed, but concentrate on the melodies and getting the expression you want. Try improvising falsetas to fit in with ones you know and play good. Once you get the compas down automatically, then maybe speeding up will come. If it never comes and you play with correct compas and emotion for the palo, then there is no shame it that and in fact something to be proud of. At times I realize I am messing up a falseta even ones I came up with, so I slow them down and find out where I am going wrong. I find that playing slow but accurate is sometimes harder than playing faster and accurate. Example would be one falseta is giving me trouble with speed, so I slow it down and it comes out great, but the following ones I play perfect at a higher speed is now off when played slowly. My opinion is practice gradually speeding up until you are at the speed you want to achieve. If you are playing solo then the speed is your choice. If for a dancer or singer then you have to be able to play at the speed they choose. Once you realize you can play with a metronome, then practice without it so you can get compas more automatic. Try to concentrate on melody and feel and not count as much. Record yourself now and then and check your compas using palmas. If technique is slowing you down, then pinpoint the technique that is hardest for you and practice it until you reach a speed you like, then practice other easier techniques till they are up to speed you desire. As a solo player speed is a personal choice. Audiences that do not know flamenco are impressed with speed even if off compas badly. An audience of true knowledgeable flamenco fans will savor a very slow on compas composition if the player fills it with expression.

Ram, Posted below are 3 examples of a very simple basic solea. 1st is slow. You can hear and feel the solea and it is a very acceptable speed, but a bit slower than I prefer. 2nd is fast. While it sounds and is easily recognizable as solea, I think it loses its emotion and feel. 3rd is medium. It is my favorite as it gives the feel and sound of solea and allows for more difficult technique to be used at this speed and still have a nice solea emotion.

Based on 60 beats derived from five 12 beat compas. Here is the results Medium is 60 beats in 30 seconds = 120 BPM. Slow is 60 beats in 35 seconds = 102 BPM. Fast is 60 beats in 22 seconds = 163 BPM. Hope this gives you some idea.

Solea Slow.mp3


Solea Fast.mp3



Solea Medium.mp3

Hi Ram;
One thing I've noticed over and over is that when a good player/teacher plays something at slow speed, it still sounds great and still sounds like flamenco.

I've tried to find a public example for you and all I could find quickly was this intro from Adam del Monte. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8oZuuEo9dE&feature=related He has a few short intros for solea and alegrias. Or this one of Juan Martin solea-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8XWJg-EYro&feature=related

You can also use a video slow-downer (which I rely on constantly) and drop Martin, for example, down even further by a third and the "music" remains. Using a slow-downer is great because you will see that you can reduce the speed on any piece you like from a good player and not much, if anything, gets lost.

Thanks for all your input and encouregments.
I will keep on going and not worry about speed.

Soleares RTC.mp3

This is where I am, first time uploading a sound file. Hope you can listen to it.

Ram wrote:This is where I am, first time uploading a sound file. Hope you can listen to it.

Hola Ram
I have heard it.
I like it very much.
It is not too slow at all. You can keep that pace for always and just add more falsetas.
Your tone is very nice to listen to and your compás is developing well.
So I would definitely say continue just as you are and enjoy and please do share more of your playing at this peña.
Un saludo

Tomás

Ram, I added the inline player to your sound clip. Very nice playing and your rasqueados are very nice. Is this from Graf- Martinez? I agree with Tomas. The speed is fine for Solea and very expressive. Compas sounds good just listening. I look forward to more from you.

The soleares is the first lesson on the Juan Martin book "El Arte de La Guitarra Flamenca", I have been working with the Vol 1 and 2. It has been a slow process but have enjoyed it a lot. My main problem is my left hand agility when it comes to cord changes. I have improved a lot but it has been a challange. My right hand techinique with rasgeos, alzapua, picado and tremolo have been developing well. Looking back I can see that when I started 4 years ago I did not know a thing about guitar playing, so I am proud of my accoplishments but sometimes is overwhelming to look ahead and see were I want to go.
Thanks for the support!

Ram wrote:I have been learning for a while now, I work very hard on Compas, but I am quite slow, if I speed up I loose my count.
Is it worth sacrificing a little compas for speed?

Not in my opinion. Not only with flamenco, but any kind of music generally sounds better played well slowly, than not-so-well fast.

Furthermore, each time we play music incorrectly, we once again practice playing it wrong, which makes it even more difficult to unlearn the wrong way and learn to play it right.

Even knowning that, I have to admidt that I have a strong tendency to play at speeds that are beyond my ability to play well. Maybe it generally is easier to play fast than correctly. Maybe it is an urge to show off. Whatever the underlying reasons, I have been working to resist that temptation.

SamC wrote:I find that playing slow but accurate is sometimes harder than playing faster and accurate.

Something that we learned to play both correctly and fast long ago probably has been played (practiced) that way many times since, but rarely will have been played slowly. It now can be difficult to play it slowly, because we haven't practiced playing it that way in recent years.

-Bob