This post is to introduce the discussion forum for the Siguiriyas. The idea of these individual palos discussions is to create an organized archive so questions, advice, audio or video demo clips, tab or music notation, etc., can readily be found in the future. Discussions can be on guitar, vocal, or dance as long as they relate to that palo. If you have a palo you want to discuss that isn't yet posted, please email or PM any moderator.

I started working on the siguiriyas again and instead of trying to count it, I practiced it from feeling and what I could pick up by watching old videos of Diego del Gastor, Melchor de Marchena, and Perico del Lunar Hijo. It seems to be coming together better than ever before. Using tab or music and trying to count it never seemed to work for me. Anyone else have trouble counting this wonderful palo? It seems to me many guitarist don't ever play siguiriyas, especially modern flamenco guitarist. Years ago when I ask some of them why, they said it was to depressing and they played on lighter palos. I wonder how many of you include this in your practice and performances.

The Siguiriya is high on my list of favorites. Though it often is described as sad and depressing, and it can be, depending on the words of a song and the attitudes of listeners, "profound" better describes the way it affects me. The same is true of Portuguese Fado. Fado often is described as being sad, and though it is true that Fado songs often tell of sad situations, Fado lovers don't generally go around being depressed and crying. Instead, they find the profound truths related in the songs, sad as they may be, to be profoundly inspirational.

I don't find Siguiriyas particularly difficult to play. I think the compas seems difficult to some people only because the structure is reversed in time compared to Soleares, Bulerias, Alegrias and most other 12-beat flamenco rhythms.

Sam's comment about counting never seeming to work for him is interesting, because I find the same is true for me, not only with Siguiriyas, but with all forms of flamenco generally. Counting certainly can help a beginner grasp the fundamental structures of the various flamenco rhythms, but beyond the early learning stage counting unnecessarily increases the workload of a guitarist playing complex music if the player knows what the music being played should sound like.

That last statement is the key to learning to play any form of flamenco correctly. There is no acceptable substitute for lots of listening to properly-played flamenco. Someone who hasn't heard Siguiriyas enough to know how a Siguiriya should sound doesn't have much hope of playing correctly simply by means of counting. Someone who has listened enough to have not only the rhythm, but other aspects of a typical Siguiriya firmly embedded in their mind, won't need to count to play correctly. The mental workload of counting interferes with other thought processes needed to play well. Likewise, foot-tapping adds to the physical workload of things that have to be done physically. Someone who is playing correctly is playing the rhythm with their thumb and fingers. Why should they additionally play the rhythm with a foot (unless, of course, they are tapping their foot loudly enough to substitute for palmas)?

-Bob

Hola Amigos
Yes I like Siguiriya very much too.
Normally I tend to think in two different ways when I play Siguiriya.
Sometimes I think very with compás and pushing it in a strong way and often with the cejilla not more than on 4 fret.
Sometimes I feel the cante even when there is not a cantaor/cataora. In this case often I like the cejilla very high maybe 6 fret or even 7 and I like to get lost in the Siguiriya.
To lose the compás, to lose everything. Not something to do for a concert, just something to do sometimes for oneself.
There is a cantaora Verónica la Hindú. I like very much her Siguiriya.
Saludos
Tomás

Hi,

I love seguiriyas, when thinking idly I wonder what might my favourite palo be, and I can never decide between seguiriya and buleria. I had trouble with the timing initially (as I have done with most flamenco) and I the solution for me, as with all palos, was metronome, metronome, metronome. I got gerhard graz-martinez flamenco metronome, a little pricey, but very helpful. On the twelve beat count it can be set to start on 12, 1, or 8. I don't count siguiriyas in in my head when playing, but since the structure is the same I can now play much better on and off the metronome, it allowed me to really feel the beats.

Seguiryas is my favorite. The compas is difficult but I found that if I keep on playing, the compas surfaces from my subconscious. The traditional PAN,PAN,PAN, morCIlla, morCilla works well. I guess we must keep on playing and playing and playing.

acefrog8 wrote:Seguiryas is my favorite. The compas is difficult but I found that if I keep on playing, the compas surfaces from my subconscious. The traditional PAN,PAN,PAN, morCIlla, morCilla works well. I guess we must keep on playing and playing and playing.

Wecome to the Old School Flamenco forum. We look forward to your participation and would like to know more about you if you would care to introduce yourself over in the Por Favor, Preséntese forum.

-Bob