For the first time in years, today I was actually able to play tremolo. Don't know why my hands were better, but it only lasted half hour until they returned to their normal abnormal.

Here is a Solea tremolo for your critique.
Solea tremolo.mp3

Here is a Farruca tremolo for your critique.
Tremolo Furruca.mp3

Sam –

I am fairly new to this forum, and I don't know the history of your hand problems, but as I mentioned on a different post (Quick little Buleria) I have had many hand problems over the years, which almost ended my performing career, but in several cases I devised other solutions. One, as I said, was for rasgueado. But I just read about your problems with tremolo. I'm very sorry to hear that. I wish I knew the nature of your problems – I might be able to suggest some things you can try, for example a completely different pattern for playing tremolo, that I devised myself, though others may have thought of it. Unless this is something you would rather not discuss, which would be understandable, perhaps you can give me a general idea of what is wrong, and what gives you some trouble.

Ramon

Hola Sam
I have listened to your tremolos and here are some ideas.
Tremolo may become easier by getting the right hand a little closer to the sound hole because strings usually feel a little softer there.
Also changing the hand position so that you meet the strings more on the corner of your finger rather than on the top may help as mails are less likely to catch and it tends to bring the fingers in line with each other.
I notice that you have quite a firm bass sound which is fine of course but it makes me imagine that your hand is quite into the strings which again is personal choice but how deep the fingers go under the string can also affect sound and ease of playing.
As Ramon says a different pattern may be good.
From time to time I try different patterns from curiosity to see how they work. If you find a combination that is good for you then I would say that is great. Would i,m,i be any easier than i,a,m,i?
Finally I would say that I have listened to your tremolo and that it is perfectly to enjoy playing and so if you can manage to play like that and avoid hand tension of course then maybe that is great anyway. It maybe could be a little slower which would be nice.
Oh I noticed the nice picado at the end and again maybe just a very little slower.
I hope it goes well for you.
Saludos

Tomás

Thanks Tomas and Ramon. I think this is a good discussion because most players learning flamenco struggle with the tremolo and most teachers consider the tremolo vital in playing flamenco guitar. With the style I have chosen to devote myself, the tremolo is rarely played. In fact when I play the different palos as an improvisational "composition", I never use tremolo and wouldn't even if I played it better than Sabicas, because it really doesn't fit into the simple pueblo gitano style that is my sole focus. My focus is expression over technique, music over mechanics. I like to post these short clips and discussion on them hopefully will encourage beginners and intermediates to post their playing for critique. Most beginners are fearful of posting on other forums because of the egos and conduct of some of the members. That is not the case here and constructive critique is encouraged.

Your points are very accurate and very helpful for any playing tremolo to consider. I have tried every combination of playing 4 repetitious notes possible and the old standard p iami seems best. I have used p imimi, p mimim, but never could get much speed. Also a 5 note p imami and many other combination. I think many would find it useful if you professionals could post a video of demonstration of different methods of executing tremolo and rasqueado.

Not to take this topic off track, but to explain my hand problems so you can understand what I am dealing with. Unrelated to the chronic pain and nerve problems, I cannot make my right hand a and m finger work independently. The orthopedic doc claims bones were broke in it and didn't heal right and nothing can be done to correct it. I never remember breaking any bones in it, but back in the 70's before I gave up flamenco/classical guitar to work in the woods and the mines, I didn't have the problem, so something happened in those 25 years and I wasn't aware of it. I did have white hand syndrome from running air drills and prehaps fractures occurred then. Be that as it may the damage is there and no amount of therapy or special exercises have been able to change that. I wish I had a video recorder to demo what happens. If I hold all four fingers in a fist and flick out with the fingers one at a time, the little (s) finger goes out about 30 degrees, then the a finger about 20 degrees with the s fully extended. Now the m goes out all the way or 90 degrees instantly and also carries the a out a fraction before it. Then of course the index goes out fine. The effect is like 3 fast strokes. It cannot be slowed down for 3 clean strokes and trying an ami ends up like 2 rough strokes. After a couple of years of experimenting I use two fast sami rasqueados in the place of one well executed sami. My other favorite one is samip. It doesn't come out 5 clean strokes, but if timed correctly can be used in place of a well executed sami.

Now the nerve and chronic pain problem. Some days I can hardly move my hands from stiffness. Heat pads help as well as Emu oil. Some times during playing, I get sharp pains that cause my hands to seize up. The best the docs can come up with is this is not from a problem in the hands, but from nerve malfunction in my brain from "white matter" as seen in folks with MS. I don't have MS, but the effects of the nerve mylin sheath damage are the same. Much like the insulation on an electrical wire being damaged and allowing electricity to leak off to other circuits and cause malfunction. The chronic pain 24/7/365 isn't just in my hands, but from head to toe. Not much can be done as the side effects from all the drugs that the specialist have prescribed are worse than the effects of the pain. My best therapy is distraction and my best distraction is gitano pueblo flamenco. Another problem arises because of my inner ear disorder and hearing loss, which I have learned to cope with very well, but in recent months the hyperacusis has returned and will not stop and nothing can be done to stop it. None of the therapies have worked. I tune open using 5th's and a 4th and check using octaves and have learned how to ignore my tinnitus that is in both ears very loud, but the sensitivity issue makes it hard, because it is hard to differentiate between the vibrations in the ear drum from the hyperacusis and the string vibrations. In other words when I get it in tune, I still hear vibrations that others cannot hear. Sometimes I am not sure if I am really in tune or not. Well, hope that gives you an idea of the challenges I have to deal with. There maybe not a lot of hope for me, but I think our discussions can be an inspiration to others to find ways of achieving their goals.

I look forward to hearing some sound clips from others. Don't wait until you think they are perfect, because maybe input from others can help you achieve perfection quicker. I would like to hear your playing Ramon. I have enjoyed Tomas videos very much.

Sam –
Browsing around I just came upon your last post here from Nov. 27 2009. First, I would be glad to upload some of my playing, but as I have mentioned on other threads, I am really a tech dinosaur. But sometime in the next couple of months I'll try to record something on analog – a tape recorder I guess – and then figure out how to get it digitalized.

As for some other things you mentioned on your post about your problems with your hands, I have some suggestions you might want to try. I have taught these successfully to many students who were struggling with the traditional finger patterns etc., in particular for tremolo and rasgueado, both of which you mentioned.

You might try a four treble note tremolo going PMIMI. (or PIMIM) That way you eliminate the A finger altogether. This produces an excellent tremolo because it uses the two strongest fingers only, which are also the most agile. It takes a long time, but if you practice it slowly and carefully, preferably with a metronome, I think you can develop a very good tremolo.

For Rasgueado – I had problems with my A finger many years ago, that fortunately have gotten better, though not entirely. I developed the following rasgueado that eliminates the use of the A finger. It is a six strokes to the beat rasgueado that can sound really good. It goes M down – I down – P up – M down – I down – P up. Six strokes to the beat – spaced perfectly evenly, you get a great tat tat tat tat tat tat. I down and M down are strong strokes, and P up is also, so you get a well balanced sound. You have to be careful to make sure that every single stroke is spaced evenly, otherwise you might get a sound like – Triplet – Triplet, which obviously is no good. If you practice this slowly, hearing an emphasis on the first down stroke of each group of six – TAT-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat - which marks the beat, space the stokes out evenly, and take your time working up speed, you can develop an excellent rasgueado with this pattern in a relatively short period of time. Also this can be used in two successive beats, as in Soleares and Alegrias, and of course by that same token it makes for an excellent continuous rasgueado, that is frequently used in Granadinas for example. And you can do this without ever using the A finger that might be giving you trouble.

Hi Sam , could you please post the tabs for them please or mail them to me .
By the way your tremolo is better than mine !
Thanks

Pc, I use the p mimi on occasion and it works quite well.

Victor, Here is Solea tab. Post a clip when you get it down.

-----8888------8888------8888------7777------7777----7777--------5555-----5555------5555
--------------------------7-------------------------------6-----------------------------------4-------
--------------8---------------------------------7---------------------------------5-------------------
--7----------------------------------5-------------------------------3--------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----4444-----4444-------4444-------------------------
-------------------------3---------------------------------
-------------4----------------------------------------------- then repeat!
--2----------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------

Chords are Adim, G7, F7, E7. You can see you are holding the A dim chord and playing the bass notes ascending with the thumb. Then side chord down one fret and at same time slide index finger down a fret to change dim chord to G7 chord and do the ascending bass thing, then slide chord down 2 frets for F7, then slide down 1 fret to E7. Then a basic Solea melody with bass.

-----3333--------3333-------3333-------3333----3333-----3333---------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------0----------------
---------------------------0---------------------------------------------------
--0-----------2-----------------------3----------2----------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------1111------0000-------1111-----------0-------------0------------------
----------------------------------------------------------0----------------------
-------------------------------------------------------1-------------------------
---3----------2----------3------------------------2-----------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------0---------------------------------------

Hi Sam i will be doing tremolo study with in the next month in the class i go to .
When you have time could you please pass on the tabs for the Farruca tremelo as a A i like it and B we are doing The Farruca at the moment .
Thanks

------5555------5555-------7777-----5555-----3333------3333-----5555-----3333
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------7-----------------------7--------------------5-----------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--5-----------------------5---------------------3--------------------3----------5-------

----1111-----1111------3333-----1111----0000------0000----0000------0000------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------1----------------------
-----------3---------------------3---------------------2------------------2-------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-1----------------------1-------------------0-------------------------------------------

---1111----1111-----1111----1111------0000----0000----0000---0000------------
---------------------3----------------------------------------------------------------
----------2-------------------2-----------------------------2----------------------------
-0-------------------------------------------------2-----------------2-------------------
-----------------------------------------0-------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notice the chords these are played with barre CV Am, G CIII, F CI, E, Dm, Am

Basically on barres all you move is little finger on left hand in each position.